UK - bill raised to scrap minimum wage.

[Calum]

I just got this email from the union of shop, distribution and allied workers (who i am no longer a member of, though i'm still on their list it seems)

Tories plan to scrap Minimum Wage is cause for Wage Concern
===========================================================

08 May 2009

Usdaw, the shopworkers’ union, is leading a campaign to save the
National Minimum Wage from a Tory Bill to scrap it.

Usdaw has teamed up with John Prescott’s Go Fourth campaign and other
unions, to launch ‘Wage Concern’ to stop a Tory Private Members Bill
that will totally undermine the minimum wage and drive millions of
workers back to poverty pay.

The Employment Opportunities Bill, tabled by Senior Conservative
Christopher Chope, who as a minister helped bring in the Poll Tax, is
timetabled for its second reading in Parliament next Friday 15 May.

During the Bill’s first reading, Mr Chope said it will: “Introduce more
freedom, flexibility and opportunity for those seeking employment in
the public and private sectors.”

The Bill, which is supported by ten other Tory MPs, aims to:

   * allow employees to opt-out of the minimum wage

   * ensure all public sector jobs are advertised openly

   * grant the ‘right to work’ under the Declaration of Human Rights by
     allowing workers to be paid less than the minimum wage

Usdaw campaigned for a Labour Government to introduce the minimum wage
in 1999. The Union is now asking all trade unionists and working people
to save the minimum wage by signing the petition launched today at
http://www.wageconcern.com

John Hannett, Usdaw General Secretary and member of the Low Pay
Commission, said:

"The minimum wage provides income protection and security for millions
of workers. It stops unscrupulous employers from driving down wages
across the board. The new Tory ‘Employment Opportunities Bill’ would
allow employers to opt out of their responsibility to their staff to
pay a fair days wage for a fair day’s work and effectively bring an end
to the National Minimum Wage.

"This shows the Tories in their true light and is a little insight into
what a Conservative Government would do. They are still fighting the
battles of the 1980s and 90s when they abolished the wages councils and
left my members and millions of other workers without wage protection.
David Cameron talks about an age of austerity, well we now know that he
means it for low-paid workers.

"There is always pressure on wages and the minimum wage is needed to
ensure people are paid fairly. I urge anyone who cares about the
protection of our workforce to log on to http://www.wageconcern.com and
sign the petition to save our minimum wage."

John Prescott added:

"Only a Tory could suggest that not being able to work for less than
minimum wage would be a denial of Human Rights. This from a party that
actually wants to abolish the Human Rights Act and provide cheaper
labour.

"We call on everyone who believes in fairness and social justice to
join Wage Concern and help us kill this Tory Bill on May 15."

Dave Prentis, UNISON General Secretary, said:

"Christopher Chope and his Tory cabal want to turn the clock back to
the days of poverty pay where workers are exploited by unscrupulous
bosses. The sham Caring Conservatism is stripped bare by their plans.
They have shown clearly that they are not on the side of ordinary
hard-working people.

"The minimum wage is a symbol of a civilised society, a floor to
protect workers that gives them dignity. It is needed more than ever in
tough economic times. And isn't it typical of the Tories that their
response to the recession is to rob the poor to keep the rich?

"UNISON fought long and hard to establish the statutory National
Minimum Wage, in the teeth of opposition and unfounded scaremongering
about massive job losses. Any attempt to dilute or abolish it will be
resisted."


Information for Editors
-----------------------

John Prescott on YouTube

John Prescott went back to his roots yesterday when he visited a
restaurant. John worked as a commis chef as a young man, where he was
protected by wage councils, before the Tories abolished them. Now he is
campaigning on YouTube to stop them abolishing the national minimum
wage. See the clip at http://www.wageconcern.com

The Employment Opportunities Bill

The 11 Tory MPs backing the bill are:

Christopher Chope (Christchurch)
Peter Bone (Wellingborough, Northants)
Philip Davies (Shipley, West Yorkshire)
Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley, Lancashire)
Greg Knight (Yorkshire East)
Edward Leigh (Gainsborough, Lincolnshire)
Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater, Somerset)
Brian Binley (Northampton South, Northants)
William Cash (Stone, Staffs)
Robert Syms (Poole, Dorset)
David Wilshire (Spelthorne, Surrey)

You can look at Hansard of the First Reading of the Bill at
http://tinyurl.com/d9g7ao

John Hannett and Usdaw

Usdaw is the 4th largest trade union in the country with over 370,000
members and is the main union in retail, but also has members in
distribution, catering and manufacturing.

Usdaw is the fastest-growing union in the country and has increased by
over 100,000 members in the last 10 years as a result of ongoing
recruitment.

John Hannett is General Secretary of Usdaw and one of the three trade
union representatives on the Low Pay Commission that recommends the
rate of the minimum wage.

The Minimum Wage

The Labour Government introduced the National Minimum Wage in 1999 to
ensure decent wages for the low paid and to create a level playing
field for employers so that better employers could not be undercut by
the worst payers.

Following the last Conservative Government’s abolition of the Wages
Councils in 1993 there had been no legal protection for wages and in
some areas low skilled jobs were routinely paid at less than £2 an
hour.

The introduction of the National Minimum Wage in 1999 at a rate of
£3.60 gave over 2 million workers an immediate pay rise. Millions more
have since benefited every year as the rate has increased by almost 60%
over 10 years to £5.73 an hour today.

Go Fourth

Go Fourth is a campaign run by and for its supporters that's dedicated
to fighting for the re-election of a Labour Government committed to the
same principles and values which have won us an unprecedented three
consecutive victories.

Go Fourth was founded by John Prescott, Glenys Kinnock, Richard Caborn
and Alastair Campbell in September 2008 to create a broad grassroots
movement to secure a progressive Fourth Labour Term.

The campaign's main aims are to proudly defend the record of the Labour
Government since 1997, actively support the Government in promoting
policies that will build on our successes, encourage greater
participation in the Labour Party and highlight the damage a
Conservative Government would do to Britain.

You can find out more at http://www.gofourth.co.uk

Notes to Editors:

   * Contacts for newsdesks: Usdaw’s Media Officer, Cherry Hamilton, can
     be contacted on 0161 249 2469 or e-mail
     http://www.usdaw.org.uk/site/email.html


This article can be found on the Web at:

http://www.usdaw.org.uk/politics/news/1 ... 14847.html
   
This message has been generated automatically using Social Change Online
AIMS Web publishing suite.

[worker201]

Those arguments have always baffled me.  Supposedly the minimum wage is keeping some workers out of the job market.  Which ones?  The ones who are so competitive that they are willing to sacrifice their wages to get in the door?  That can't be too many people.

[orethrius]

Truthfully, I oftentimes wonder whether the reins of government have been handed to complete morons.  Perhaps a return to Oliver Twist times is in order; though I feel for the laborers that would be consumed in the process, the subsequent revolution would no doubt reinforce basic human rights.

[Aloone_Jonez]

Those arguments have always baffled me.  Supposedly the minimum wage is keeping some workers out of the job market.  Which ones?  

There are plenty of people who are willing to work for less than the minimum wage. The main group of people I can think of at the moment are those with learning disabilities: many who whom would rather get a job than sit at home doing nothing.

The minimum wage prevents companies from employing some people with learning difficulties who might take longer to do a job but are still worth employing. Businesses aren't charities and are not going to pay someone the same as everyone else when they work at half the speed.

I think the minimum wage is bad because it's taking the responsibility of wealthfare away from the government and moving it to private companies.

I would like to see the minimum wage scrapped and replaced with a better system of income support.

The minimum wage always has to be set at a really low level anyway, otherwise it would push up unemployment and inflation.

[Laukev7]

Here people with learning disabilities get hired by companies and they are encouraged to do so and compensated by the government.

[Aloone_Jonez]

That sounds like a good idea but companies can of course abuse government hand outs - it might be better to allow the companies pay them their marker value and top up the rest.

[worker201]

I don't think it's a good idea at all to give that kind of power to companies.  One of the purposes of the minimum wage is to protect the worker from being overly exploited by the company.  If you give a company an inch, it will take a mile - that's the fundamental rule of profit maximization.  First they start paying the mentally handicapped a low wage.  Then they start docking blacks and foreigners.   Eventually, people who had a B- average in school will be paid less.  And all of this will happen regardless of performance - because they can.

The current system (in the US) prevents companies from exploiting their workers too much.  In the US, companies pay the minimum wage, and then get government kickbacks in the form of tax breaks for hiring the mentally handicapped or unskilled workers.  The government decides how far the practice gets taken, and everyone else gets a fair shake.

[Aloone_Jonez]

I don't think it's a good idea at all to give that kind of power to companies.  One of the purposes of the minimum wage is to protect the worker from being overly exploited by the company.  If you give a company an inch, it will take a mile - that's the fundamental rule of profit maximization.  First they start paying the mentally handicapped a low wage.  Then they start docking blacks and foreigners.

Well technically there are laws around to prevent that kind of discrimination, although I don't see paying someone less because they are less capable than their co-workers' as a form of discrimination.

Income support should to top up their wages able to provide mentally handicapped people with a reasonable standard of living

I suppose I'm very capitalist, I think that allowing market forces to set the wages is the best thing. If one employer treats their personnel badly, the unions will kick up a fuss and people will leave and go work for someone who treats them well.

I still like Laukev7's idea but I prefer idea of the disabled people directly receiving the benefits rather than the company.

Eventually, people who had a B- average in school will be paid less.  And all of this will happen regardless of performance - because they can.

That happens anyway, maybe not like you've just said but someone might not get more money because they're better but because of their qualifications.

The current system (in the US) prevents companies from exploiting their workers too much.  In the US, companies pay the minimum wage, and then get government kickbacks in the form of tax breaks for hiring the mentally handicapped or unskilled workers.  The government decides how far the practice gets taken, and everyone else gets a fair shake.

I'm more of a proponent of negative income tax, I think that means testing and tax breaks waste money in administration charges; poor people could be receiving greater benefits without any increases in tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

[worker201]

All that assumes that corporations will adjust to the market in a timely matter.  Experience suggests that reality is a bit more flexible.  The purpose of economic law and practice is to keep those motherfuckers in line.

[kintaro]

The minimum wage comes at a high cost, in the event of any deflation of any cause, it makes the economy shit workers. This compels people to compel the Government to use stimulus to constantly reinflate bubbles which severely effects production.

The minimum wage also means I can't work for free to get experience. I found a way around that but it was a hard road. Wouldn't you rather a foot in the door worker, rather than shelving groceries.

I think you have to be pretty sad and materialitically motivated to love the minimum wage. I value experience and these laws limit that for me and anyone else. I'd rather be paid nothing to train under Larry Ellison than unload trucks for a living. You should think less about bare survival and more about your metaphysical future yourself when considering this issue.

[Aloone_Jonez]

Isn't working for free classed as voluntary work which is legitimate?

A good way of getting round the minimum wage would be to recruit volunteers and pay them generous expenses.

[kintaro]

Isn't working for free classed as voluntary work which is legitimate?

A good way of getting round the minimum wage would be to recruit volunteers and pay them generous expenses.

Well, in my country you can only work as a volunteer once you have registered a not-for-profit and such unless its just a small charity or a small business. Young people get skilled yet, minimum wage laws keep them working at either McDonalds or wherever for bare sustenance and there is nothing wrong with that except that usually teenagers are pretty well supported here by family. These laws make it difficult for people to find training for work they actually enjoy rather than just for immediate material gain. On the most part this socialist crap builds coercive barriers that prevent two people doing what they want to do together. Socialism is the most disgusting and materialistic crap on this planet, socialists must live entirely for stuff, because they don't seem to find any actual meaning in work itself - just bare survival.

Also, as I pointed out, it also is self-defeating because progressive socialism also dumped us with central fractional reserves so the Government got control of the currency so they could print money to spend whatever they want in the welfare state. This inflation blows up bubbles which, when bursted, lead to deflationary events that shit minimum wage workers out - making things even worse. So they print even more money.

The thing is, when they print money the amount of goods stays the same. In any case the short term gain of the minimum wage is materialistic, and encourages youth to be materialistic along.

Anyway, in any case I think it should be scraped. A negative income tax would work better anyway, where the people on the lowest incomes get negative income tax to supplement them. This could be done quite cleverly as what could be maintained is your ability to put food on your table by the price index. That is a socialist idea, but it would be a good step back from something I can't change but is an absolutely destructive force, minimum wage.

Just look up the subject of minimum wage at www.mises.org - it destroys opportunities and jobs.

[Calum]

I suppose I'm very capitalist, I think that allowing market forces to set the wages is the best thing. If one employer treats their personnel badly, the unions will kick up a fuss and people will leave and go work for someone who treats them well.

i don't think you are "very" capitalist. A real capitalist would be against the very idea of a union, wouldn't they? You seem to support the idea as part of the machanism of fair employment (which i agree with incidentally).

re: minimum wage, while you guys make a lot of good points about it being harmful, last time it was abolished in the UK all that happened was, yes, unemployment didn't go up as much (because there were more jobs going) but lots of bottom feeders had to work for a pittance jus tto (barely) survive. i used to know an elderly man who worked 72 hour and 96 hour shifts as a site security guard for 94 pence an hour. Is that the indication of a healthy economy?

We've been led to believe there's no wealth left in the UK, and that a lot of cuts and so on are the only possibility. Perhaps this idea will re-emerge in that spirit. Perhaps not though, now we have a different government in the UK.

[kintaro]

Eh, what really needs to be considered is if the Government has the right to use conquest and force to project their idea of 'healthy' onto the economy or not. Is the economy being ran by guns rather than consent your idea of a healthy economy? Sure, the minimum wage might not be the greatest of all evils but the precedent of using force rather than reason to set wages or make any other wishes come true is slavery.

A real capitalist just doesn't like Government privileges being granted to collective entities. Religions, unions, corporations, marriages or anything else for that matter. Obviously for as long as capitalism is going to exist, unions are going to be allowed to exist. Stopping unions would turn capitalism back into this pathetic yellow-bellied mixed economy we have now and have had for far too long.